Two Mediums Reveal How They Experience the Spirit World | with Dennis Blaauw

What does communication with the spirit world actually feel like from inside the mind of a medium?

In this open and often humorous conversation, psychic mediums Jason Paul and Dennis Blaauw compare how they each experience mediumship—and discover that no two connections unfold in quite the same way.

We explore whether mediumship can truly be taught, or whether it is something that must be individually uncovered and remembered. Dennis and I discuss clairvoyance, clairsentience, symbolism, emotion, energy and how spirit may draw upon a medium’s memories and personal experiences to communicate.

We also examine why trying too hard can interrupt the natural flow of mediumship, the importance of experimentation, and whether traditional approaches to teaching mediumship can sometimes become too structured or restrictive.

Along the way, we put our own intuitive abilities to the test with a spontaneous colour experiment—with mixed and amusing results!

In this conversation:

✨ What spirit communication feels like
 ✨ Why every medium experiences the spirit world differently
 ✨ Whether mediumship can be taught
 ✨ Clairvoyance, clairsentience and symbolic communication
 ✨ How spirit uses memories, feelings and personal associations
 ✨ Why overthinking can block the connection
 ✨ Learning through experimentation—and embracing the “no”
 ✨ The strengths and limitations of traditional mediumship training
 ✨ Letting go of pressure and allowing mediumship to unfold
 ✨ A live intuitive colour experiment

This is an honest conversation between two developing and working mediums who are continuing to question, explore and refine their understanding of the spirit world. Rather than presenting one fixed answer, we invite you to consider what resonates with your own experience. 

Discover more about Dennis Blaauw and Astra Anima

https://astranima.com/

Connect with Jason Paul

🌐 Website: https://www.jasonpaulmedium.com
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✉️ Contact: hello@jasonpaulmedium.com

Soul Sync is for curious souls, deep thinkers and recovering overthinkers—exploring mediumship, consciousness, spiritual awakening and the mysteries of life beyond the physical.

What does communication with spirit feel like for you? Share your experiences or questions in the comments.

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Transcript

Introduction

Charlie Kelly Medium 0:05

Hello and welcome back to the SoulSync podcast. It's me, Psychic Medium Jason Paul, and it's lovely to have you here. I've just got back from Prague late yesterday, had a lovely time a few days away, um, which was really beautiful. I went by myself, saw lots of the sights, and one of the days I even did 25,000 steps, um, and my feet are actually feeling it today. So I wanted to uh have a conversation today with medium Dennis Blau, who's been on the podcast fairly recently, and we both wanted to talk about how we experience our mediumship because I believe mediumship is very uh difficult to teach because it is more of an unfolding, and every medium experiences uh their mediumship in a different way, ultimately, because the way the spirit world communicates with us is through our memories, uh through every experience that we've ever had in our consciousness. So they will draw on our past experiences, the way we feel about certain things, they will use everything in our tapestry of life. So for that very reason, no two people can experience it the same. And that's what can make it very difficult in the early days where a lot of mediums compare themselves because one medium feels it like this, another medium over here feels it like this, and it can be very difficult to navigate that. So for that reason, I wanted to bring Dennis onto the podcast to have a conversation about how we experience our mediumship. We're both at different stages, uh not one better than the other, and coming up very soon, we're gonna be in Amsterdam doing an evening of platform mediumship. So I know many of you are trying to develop your relationship with the spirit world, so I thought this would be a really interesting conversation to explain how both Dennis and I experience our mediumship. And it's a pretty fascinating conversation, if I do say so myself. So uh enjoy

Two mediums compare their experiences

Charlie Kelly Medium 2:19

oh, I'm excited, Dennis Blau. Welcome, welcome, welcome back, even to the SoulSync.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

You don't allow any jokes, huh, because you're erasing the first part.

Charlie Kelly Medium 2:29

I am erasing the first part. That's that's the whole point of the editor. I might put the way this is gonna go. Perhaps I'll do our bloopers section. You never know. Do you know what, actually? If I had outtakes from the Soul Sync, not that I do a huge amount of overall editing, but if I did outtakes, my god, there'd be some funny ones. There would be. There would be normally most of the funny things happen before I push the record button because I try and get that out of my system before I start being too silly, you see. You're getting like jig jiggerists, what do you call it? Well, yes, I I start getting a bit pent up and excited depending on the guest and how they stir my energy pop before we get going. Right. It's always like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

It's it's probably mutual, no?

Charlie Kelly Medium 3:09

Well, we well, it is this is an exchange of an energy energy, isn't it? We're all one, it depends. Right. But you know, I wanted to bring you back on because firstly we are sharing the platform. It's a very dramatic way to say uh a stage or a raised piece of concrete, however you want to dress it up. But it is what we say in the mediumistic world. We are sharing a platform in Amsterdam, doing some mediumship on a it's not actually going to be Amsterdam, it's close to Amsterdam. Oh well, I've already got the location wrong. Thank God you've told me I could have turned up to the wrong venue.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

But we're doing I would have gotten you.

Charlie Kelly Medium 3:50

Well, we're doing some mediumship in a location close to Amsterdam on a date of which I've now forgotten, so we're doing very well so far. But it's in early August, it's uh a Thursday. I know that it's the first Thursday of August. I should know this considering it's one of the first times I'm actually gracing a platform in any country other than England, so it's very exciting. But I wanted to talk today because a lot of the time when I do episodes of the Soul Sync, you know, I talk about different matters, but you know, I wanted to come on today to talk more about mediumship from a sense of what are we working on and where are we up to and what does our mediumship look like? Because the first thing I want to say is mediumship is from my experience now and from how I see it now, it's different for every two people. No one person, I don't believe, experiences it the same, which firstly I I will say that that is what I feel makes it so difficult to why you can't train uh someone to be a medium. It's a it's a journey of helping them to unfold. What do you agree with that? Uh, how do you view that uh first statement, Dennis Blau?

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree it's a journey of the. Oh, we're already having a debate.

Charlie Kelly Medium 5:09

We haven't even started for two minutes yet, so we're already getting into what what why do you agree? Why do you disagree?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Well, it's like you actually make two statements. It's a journey of the self. Yes, I agree. You can train somebody. Well, I think you can, and that's what we see. Like we have teachers teaching mediumship, and you're doing it actually yourself too.

Charlie Kelly Medium 5:33

Well, I would say I I don't view it in that way because I would say that yes, okay, we can use the word teacher, I would more say tutor, but I would say that it's good teachers of mediumship, really, what they're doing is they're helping you to unfold something because that you can't teach someone mediumship because mediumship is the truest essence of you. So uh you're not you can't teach some someone something that you already are, and if you're already a soul with an ability to connect to other souls, then it's a I would say it's more of a helping you to remember and forget the thought patterns and beliefs that you have learned that are disaligned from that of the truth.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Maybe I think that's a big part of it. But then, for example, why would you be able to connect to people that have crossed and went to the other spy side? But you have a hard time connecting with plants or animals or

Can mediumship really be taught?

SPEAKER_01 6:37

rocks or the sky. So then would you put it down then to well, my essence is not related to rocks and animals and plants, but more to people?

Charlie Kelly Medium 6:49

Well, that's a very good point as well, because everything from what I now understand and believe, everything is one and the same, and every you know, atom is connected to another atom, even though I have to say that I think that my journey now is I'm trying to ever more live in a way that fully encompasses the fact that I am one and the same as everything. But I feel that the illusion of separation is a very difficult illusion to sometimes overcome when our eyes are just constantly lying to us from every moment, from the moment we're born. Our eyes are yes, they're not lying to us totally, they are showing us a very small spectrum of reality. I'm glad it's showing me what it is. Don't get me wrong, I'm not slating my eyes, I'm giving eternal gratitude for them. But you know, we it's it's very hard to encompass that, you know. Even I understand, yes, okay, we're one, we are all one and the same. But would I say that I fully encompass that in my being? To a point that yes, I if for mediumistic, but you make a very good point. But would I say that I'm like that in nature? No, and a lot of mediums aren't because you know, how many mediums do you know that love a drink? You know, they love a drink, they're very disconnected from a lot of other parts of reality, and they don't necessarily live a life that's you know, yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

And actually, like your talking gives me uh a lot of things to say, but like I'm touching now on the the last thing, like um a lot of mediums they also drink, and for a lot of mediums, it's also sometimes it feels like they are turning on something within themselves and they're turning it off when they're not working. So that's also an interesting thing because then it means that it's not necessarily their complete expression of the soul that is constantly there, but they choose at that moment to turn it on and off, and then coming back to the learning. Probably people are learning to do that more consciously, to drop certain layers of themselves for a moment temporarily, and then being able to connect, and then when the job is done, so to say, they would just take on everything that they were before. And you also see that there is a difficulty for beginning mediums, and you see that basically in any spiritual practice to stay on it for long, it's not really a choice. So people want to and they jump to a certain practice, but then at a certain amount they cannot hold the tension anymore or the field in a certain frequency, and they collapse back to who they were, right?

Charlie Kelly Medium 9:34

You recognize that well, I can because in the early days of my mediumship, I probably spent the first year trying to find out where the power button was after having inadvertently found it. I then became ever in this quest of uh sitting in the power to activate the power, to turn on the power, to turn it up the power, to turn it down. But you know, it it took me a long time to realise where the switch was. And then the moment I realised where the switch was, I realised there'd never been a switch the whole time and it had always been on. But it is a frequency, isn't it? It's all about energy. But my understanding evolves, and I think part of what I wanted you to come on today is I think we're both at different stages in terms of our mediumship. Different stages, meaning just different places. You know, we both have different ways of interpreting the spirit world. And I think one of the most help unhelpful things you can even do in mediumship is to say to myself, Oh, you're intermediate, you're advanced, you're at this level, you're that. That that is really unhelpful because straight away there um you're already creating resistance in your unfolding by that of comparing someone else to you. You are a soul, you are clear, you've got the same capabilities. But yes, some people will be more experienced because they have experimented more with their faculties and they know how they more work. I'll tell you how the spirit, because spirit have evolved with me a long a lot over the years. At the very beginning, I would say I went for a long stage of just getting stuck. I say stuck with faces. I'd get a face, it come into my I do know what third eye is one of those things where I don't think that's helpful either, because I spent a long time wanting

Is mediumship always switched on?

Charlie Kelly Medium 11:08

the image to come through right here, you know, like almost like I'm gonna project it like a projector on the wall. But I, you know, without going off on a tangent, I would say at the very beginning, I would sort of get faces and then I would just feel that I couldn't move beyond the face. It was almost like the face was just there. But these are I'm very clairvoyant, and the spirit world have their own distinct language of communicating with me, which is with good firstly, I'll say it's with good humour that they they've realized that humour definit definitely seems to be a language that I understand. But for a long time, the spirit world would give me one thing, you see, Dennis. They'd give me a washing machine and I would say a launderette, they'd give me an iron board and I would say a shirt, you know. I was interpreting it, and I had to have an energetic reset with them about a year ago. I said to them, Do you know what? I'm making life difficult. You show me a pizza, I say dominoes. You show me a woman, I will say it's a daughter, you know. Right now I'm gonna have a reset and everything you give to me, I will just now say. But it's a journey, isn't it? How does your mediumship, how would you describe it when a spirit person's coming to you, Dennis? What's going on in your own internal reality?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

When I connect with something or something connects with me, and it can be a spirit of any type, then it changes per time. It's not necessarily it's always the same, and I think I'm not sure if everybody has it like that, but I think many mediums that I talk to explain it quite similar to that it it changes per connection, and that's what makes it sometimes difficult because we tend to try and expect we we expect something and then we try to work with what we expect. But being open to anything makes you actually better to perceive what kind of connection comes through, and it's not really different than to life. So any skill you can acquire in life, it's transferable to mediumship. And I think we forget that as times because we try so hard with mediumship, but then we say, okay, there is only one type of relationship that we can build on. But then if we look at life, we have different kinds of relationship. If we meet another person, we talk differently, we act differently, we know which word to say and which not. And it's not much different when I do mediumship. I realize like we only have 10 minutes, so you need to get it as quickly connected as it can. But it's not only you making the connection, so you don't need to worry that much because most of the time you feel and sense that spirit is actually mediating in between as well. So it can either be your guides mediating mediating in between, or you see like the spirit actually trying to get a little bit closer to your frequency, or making it a little bit better for your impressions. So asking me how how it is to have a connection, yeah, it varies so much. It varies so much.

Charlie Kelly Medium 14:26

Well, but I I guess that's that's in the nature of the fact that every single soul is different, every single spirit person is different, and that again is what can make it tricky in mediumship because uh you know, every single person is an individual. So if you know you've got a teacher or you're at the beginning of your journey and someone says to you, right, okay, first thing that you're gonna do on this exercise now is you're gonna get a name, you're gonna get an address, you're gonna get whatever it might be, whatever bit of evidence. You know, whilst I can understand the merits that that can at a very, very, very early point of your career um say career, of your unfoldment, it can help. The reason why is because at the very beginning of my journey, what I needed was bucket loads of evidence because you know, I was struggling to believe that this was, you know, reality, or maybe it was I just wanted a burden of proof. Kind of makes sense, doesn't it? Being an ex-police officer, the burden of proof for the spirit world must be beyond all reasonable doubt. It kind of makes sense, doesn't it? But you know, I would say I would say in the early days really of my mediumship, it's it's changed, it's evolved. No two spirit people are the same. But what I think the spirit world do do is they get to understand what your language of the soul is, how you interpret things. Because at the end of the day, if you're listening to this and you're wondering how the hell a medium connects to spirit, let me cut through the noise here. Very simple. They use your memories, they use every single thing within your consciousness, every experience, every memory, every um emotion that you have ever had is within their repertoire. So what they're doing within the medium is they are drawing on that because at the end of the day, how else are they going to communicate to you? And one of the big problems we have in mediumship is at some stage we believe that the mind is the enemy. You know, there's two halves of the brain here, there's the left half and the right half. Only one half isn't really an enemy. But what we're just trying to do is move into the right half. But the spirit world, they draw on our emotions, and a lot of the time, my I will get a spirit person come through. And the first thing I always get always a face, always a face. It can be a face of a famous person, it can be quite often my granddad's face comes through, and I went through a stage of going, Why are you doing this to me? My mediumistic granddad, why do you keep coming through in such a way? Are you trying to ruin my connection? But there was symbology, everything is symbolic, isn't it, with the spirit world? And I even had to realize, and I believe my granddad is a teacher of my mediumship, he would come through, and I always remember this one particular thing where he'd come through on a bar stall, almost laughing at me. And I thought, why are you doing this? You know, what is it that the spirit world is trying to communicate to me? And it was in an Irish bar. Firstly, of course, it was in an Irish bar. Where else, where else would it be, Dennis? And there was there was an there was an undertone message to that, which was he was taking me and making me aware of this scene within the bar. So the first thing is because of the fact that the spirit world are communicating to you via your memories, your experiences, your experiences are totally different to mine, Dennis. We've got our own separate lives. So straight away, the language of the spirit world is through your own internal lived experience. So, of course, our mediumship can't

Why every spirit connection feels different

Charlie Kelly Medium 17:28

be different because the language of the soul that they are using is that of your experiences, your feelings, which are separate to that of mine.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, I think that's partially the story.

Charlie Kelly Medium 17:42

And I think you already said it in the beginning, because now you also said they use symbols, but then I said a lot of things, Dennis, whether you agree with them or not is up to you. And I encourage viewers of this podcast to form their own belief, take what resonates and leave this outdoors.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

So let me let me point out just what you said because you said they use symbols, and just before that, you said, like, I don't do interpretations anymore, but the symbol is always interpretation.

Charlie Kelly Medium 18:10

So here you already have a conflict within yourself. No, there is a conflict within that, right? There is a conflict in that, and let me unravel that that particular point. Yes, the spirit world are using symbols, and you are interpreting the symbology, but I would actually say that you from my understanding of where I'm at now with my mediumship, and it's a journey, you never get to a destination. If you think you've arrived, then you've probably you're probably could be further from arriving. But you know what I now believe is the spirit world will use these experiences, and it's about the feeling. What within the feeling of the symbol, that is normally, I feel, where the message lays. But not every well, no, because it is always in the feeling. For me, I will get a symbol, and the first thing I will normally do, you give me a boat on a lake, I'm feeling into what is that memory? What is it that you are wanting to express to me? Because they're bringing through emotion, and if you're not having emotion in your readings, and I do think there's two types of mediums

How spirit communicates through memories and symbols

Charlie Kelly Medium 19:13

there's technical mediums and emotional mediums, and I do think you tend to fall into one or two camps, I I believe.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

But um, and this is the kind of sound like my wife's philosophy classes. Do I? You're either feminist or you're the analytical philosopher.

Charlie Kelly Medium 19:31

Well, I did but again, Dennis, this is the thing. You see, I don't agree with boxes, and I think that for too long I've been trying to contain myself within a box, and I'm never someone to be contained within a box, you know. You put me in a box and I want to burst, but mediumship shouldn't be put in one, should it? You must agree with that, surely, Dennis.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Sorry. You're asking me now whether I think of boxes or not.

Charlie Kelly Medium 19:53

No, I'm the the point I'm making is first of all, mediumship is individual. Secondly, the the language of the spirit world and what I believe happens in mediumship is they're drawing on your memory bank, your image bank. And when we talk about the symbology and interpretation, what I mean by because one of the big problems I've had, and and it's I've had it so much, and we I think we all have it, is you get something, and the first thing it does is go ding into the analytical brain because you try and place it, and that's like the whole thing when you get the washing machine and you say the launderette because you've interpreted it, you've tried to place it, and I have it so much. Every time I get a no in a reading, I'll tell you this it's not because I've not accurately got what it is, it's in the fact normally, and I can tell when I because I'm at a point in my mediumship now. When I get a no, the first thing I do is I go back and I understand it's because I it's gone to the brain. I've tried to interpret it, and you can feel it because the energy changes straight away. The moment you're interpreting it, you're in the left brain rather than the right brain.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah, but I think you're missing out on something because I I I don't disagree, right? So I think this is a very big part, but all of our senses can be used mediumistically, and when you're talking about feelings as you are talking, yes, they are directly connected to memories. And if this is your strongest medium part, probably it will be elicited by memories. So the communication will most often be through memories. I'm just giving like an example, right? And smell and hearing, they can be completely novel. You don't necessarily need to have necessarily a memory attached to it. They can talk to you, you hear their voices, you can smell what what they are smelling, and it can be smells that you haven't smelled before, or at least not relating to something, and even images can be like that. You can see landscapes or places where you've definitely not been before, and then of course you can say, Oh yeah, but you've drawing on movies, and yeah, maybe, but at the same time, why wouldn't it be like no?

Charlie Kelly Medium 22:09

It's interesting, isn't it? And and you're right, because there is many other ways of other than clairvoyance. Clairvoyance has always been my my I would say my strong one, but it's not actually. And I was having this conversation the other day with Colin Bates because I said, Oh, clairvoyance isn't, you know, my main faculty. And he said, It's not, it's actually clairsence. And I said, Yes, you're right, actually, because it is always a feeling I get. But what happens is the reason I always straight away default and say that I get clairvoyance first is because the images I always get are so vivid that to me, because it's visual and I can see it, it's almost like I think the spirit world have got into some way of working with me where they know the first thing to do is to give me a face because from the face it's almost like I it triggers me off, it lets me know that there's someone there, so it sort of starts the engines, you could say.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Have you ever noticed that when your other senses are more open in your direct environment, it also opens up in your mediumship?

Charlie Kelly Medium 23:15

I I think that you can do a lot to help your development, and I even feel, and you are right, you know, if you're in a situation or a circumstance where you know you're you're really present and in the moment and you're in a beautiful surrounding, I do think that yes, other Claire senses can be heightened and activated. But I I keep saying to myself that there's so many things that I want to do now in my newfound life of new Jason, where you know, I want to do it. I keep saying to my mum, I want to go over to you and I want to start doing experiments where you're just gonna put a blindfold on me and get like put jars under my nose and I'm gonna identify the spells. But the problem with my mum is I know she's very immature. Well, yeah, she'd probably come along with some of the cat litter or something or whatever. So it's uh it's a trust thing, you see. But I do think that you can do a lot to train. Like one thing that I've just started doing, actually, because I really work with colour very well. I've always been very attracted to colour, and I always find that colours massively change my mood. But I've started this exercise now where I've got this crazy sized colour deck in the cupboard, which is I must have over 500 different shades, and I've just at random taken a hundred of them and put them in brown envelopes, and every day I take one of the brown envelopes and try to feel and detect the colour. And I actually have a quite a good at the moment. Um I would say I I I don't just get the shade some days, I'll actually get the specific shade. Like I might say to you, Dennis, I wouldn't say I had a red, I would say I've got a dark maroon. You want to be put on the spot? Do you know what I do? But all the envelopes are downstairs, so that's gonna be. Oh, go on, let's try have a try then. But uh, I got a colour in my hand. You've got a colour. Okay. I'm gonna say because this is the interesting thing now. And in an experiment like this, and this makes the point perfectly, the first thing that I want to do is I want to feel that colour. I don't want to think about that colour, I want to feel into the colour. But there's also a certain element now that if I stay with the colour for too long, you start overthinking it and second guessing. So the first colour, I'm gonna say the first thing that I was aware of was a turquoise, but that isn't my colour because I feel that you hadn't fully selected it. So I'm going to say a purple, a dark purple. Is it correct? Totally. Let's have a look. Oh, it's a bloody orange, of course it is. But the point is, if I was going to do this, when I do the experiment normally at home, I have an ex I have an exercise where I will, you know, take my time to really feel the energy of the colour. And every colour does have a vibration at the end of the day. And especially when I've been doing mediumship, if I've been on a course or I've been on something extended, you take me back, and one time, no words of a lie, 10 cards in a row with my mum, and she looks at me like I was Harry Potter, Dennis. But that's because I've been very sensitive and opened up for the week.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yeah, no, I I believe you. I know. It was a bit unfair to make me a lot.

Charlie Kelly Medium 26:13

I I'm kind of half tempted to do the same back to you. I'm kind of half tempted to I I'm almost I almost feel that I have to now.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Oh yeah, you can. Come on. Let the boy go down the drain.

Charlie Kelly Medium 26:51

This may be cut out later, but you never know. Let's have a look. Oh, okay. I do know which one I've uh selected already. So I'm just going to send the vibration of this colour.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Oh, you don't necessarily need to do that, but okay. I would say it hinges on the the blue and green spectrum.

Charlie Kelly Medium 27:14

And I know it is blue. Yeah, very good. And it is actually kind of a green as well. Yeah, a bluey green. That's that's because you took your time, Dennis. You see, I went well no, it is as my mum says to me, ball in the china shop. You know, I didn't take my time, I felt the pressure, but that's the ego, isn't it? You know, there's a lesson to be learnt in that exercise, but it's a good thing to do. And I also feel that yeah, those I can't even remember what you call them, those cards that have got the triangle, the symbol, the squiggly line.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

I want to try again.

Charlie Kelly Medium 27:47

Um, well, do you know what? There's many

Clairvoyance, clairsentience and interpreting impressions

Charlie Kelly Medium 27:50

parts of me that does want to try again. And and I oh well, oh that's very cuddly. No, I honestly I'm very I do it all the time, and I I'm very good with the colour, and the colour is something that I work with a lot. So yeah, I like it. I like it. And I a lot of the uh early stages of my mediumship, a lot of the readings that I would do would be starting with a colour, reading into the colour. But some of the honestly, what I would perceive to be the best readings that I've ever done have started with something as simple as a rose. But you can read into anything, you know. Some of the I remember doing a reading once where a medium tutor gave me a rose and said, Okay, do a reading from this rose.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

It's it's very interesting. I really don't like using it, but uh on RT Finlay call it they they gave you these exercises and it actually does work. And that's also I think how we were we did the bone readings, right?

Charlie Kelly Medium 28:42

It's oh yes, I remember I was really good at the uh so we basically, yes, we got a pile of bones, they weren't real bones, but obviously in the traditional sense

Developing and strengthening the psychic senses

Charlie Kelly Medium 28:53

and ancient uh tribal times.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

It wasn't even real bones, it was just plastic even.

Charlie Kelly Medium 28:58

Well, it was because if it was real bones, I wouldn't have touched them, but effectively we got them, we shook them up, and then we did a reading into the bones, and it was amazing that the the level of detail that was coming out, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Yeah, it's it's what and that's what what ticks me down sometimes, right? Because in shamanism, you take the time, and for example, if you would do something like this, you do some oracle reading or psychic reading, but through an oracle. And I know even people with tarot do it, right? They infuse the cards, I think either with their energy or something. So there is there is a ritual around it to make sure that the objects are in a certain vibration. But yeah, I cannot say we didn't do any ritual, like we we did blend it a little bit with our energy and their energy, if you still remember that.

Charlie Kelly Medium 29:51

I do, yeah. We did some and that's that do you know what that's that's the bloody point of it as well. We did a lot of experimenting, and that's what you need to do. You need to experiment, try different things.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, and I I I I agree with that, because with the experimenting too, your perspective can change if you're open to the experiment, and it can be a little bit challenging, frightening, or whatever, but after that, you can accumulate so many things and sometimes also drop your inner perspective, like which doesn't suit you anymore for the new truth that you've found. And I know like you're very classical medium trained, right? And or at least from that direction, you're not that classical trained, I know, but you're still within the English school of mediumship. Can I say that?

Charlie Kelly Medium 30:44

Yeah, and I like yes, because I I I think the ways of the old and how they trained back then was uh and the uh creativity to the mediumship and how they would push barriers, and I I I really feel that that those were the you know real pioneers. So I guess I've kind of always been curious of the ways of the old because I think there's so much to be

Jason and Dennis test their intuition with colour

Charlie Kelly Medium 31:08

said for that that way of developing.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Yeah, yeah, I definitely don't want to punch at it or something, but I can see definitely the the difference in our thought patterns, and even when you go at the college, for example, Arthur Finley College, that's like basically the only place that I know where where I've gathered with other mediums, but in such a big scale. But then you you definitely also see a very big difference in people coming. And the point what I was trying to make was that you can change your perspective at some of the exercises, and it can really help you drop certain perspectives that wouldn't suit you anymore. But as you see, and I'm I'm treading a thin line here, I'm thinking, but I think that some of the classic English mediums have been set up too narrow, like their boundaries are too strict about what you're communicating with, I think, especially.

Charlie Kelly Medium 32:07

But it works very well in the college, and I think part of the problem with that is that's more to do with the politics of the spiritualist national union and how they say that mediumship should be taught. And I actually think that's whilst I love the college, there's nowhere like it, I do think that's actually a problem with mediumship and how it's taught now, is it's is is it is it's too rigid, and actually I I feel that that is limiting because mediumship shouldn't just be done in this particular way, because actually that that's stopping the intelligence of the spirit from bringing through what they need to bring through. That's why we don't have great psychic surgeons like we used to and great physical mediums, because of that reason. Might be, might be.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

But at the same time, it also provides boundary in which different kinds of people can find a common ground to communicate with. And those boundaries are then very strict and very strong, which means that the communication stays within that system, and therefore you wouldn't have like a blown-out party of people going in all directions. So I think it definitely holds value. But the point what I was trying to still make is that because of this boundary that they put them on among themselves, they wouldn't even be open to doing certain types of exercises, which actually would show them that there is something beyond that boundary. You can understand that. So they would they would they would rise in a certain direction or grow into a certain direction, but you would never be able to communicate them about different kinds of things. And that's that's to say that there is definitely other people who grown into that pop and are able to talk about it. But I mean, in general, for a big portion, there is just a boundary and a framework. And as I previously also said, I don't necessarily think that's wrong. I I don't mean that at all, but I just mean to say it sometimes makes you unable to pick up different kinds of exercises which can give you an alternative reality or an alternative point of view, which can actually catapult you if you know how to transform that within yourself and break free of some of the perspectives that are holding you back.

Charlie Kelly Medium 34:21

I think you make a good point. I think that with mediumship, the most important thing is to first of all, you've got to understand um when you're bringing through this spirit world, you are essentially learning, like you say, it's as it's a new skill a lot of the time. And that that skill is a very difficult skill because the journey of becoming a medium is being able to channel something. And I, you know, I always think one of the most difficult things for me about being a medium was the fact that I care so much, I absolutely care, you know. I'm sitting in front of someone in an environment where all of a sudden I'm about to claim that I've got their uncle who passed away that they were so attached to, you know, and already just that environment of claiming, you know, right, okay, I'm sitting in the early days. I've got your uncle here, you know, and I'm thinking, oh my god, you know, now I'm starting to make claims of someone I've got. So, you know, there's all sorts of things that are going on in the early days, but I think you've got to take the pressure off yourself and you've got to accept that in the early days, I think the word experiment really helps because it invites you to get it wrong, it invites you to get a no, because you know, what you're essentially doing is you're taking the pressure off yourself in whatever way or mechanism you need to do that. I'll tell you something Charlie Kelly said to me a few weeks ago, which was um very interesting when we were talking about the pressures of mediumship or whatever. And he said to me, and I did get the point, but he said to me, the moment I stopped caring, and I sort of thought, what do you mean he started saying in true Charlie Kelly style, I don't give a fuck. But what he was basically saying was, I don't care about a reading. And the moment I got to that point was the moment my mediumship put took off, and there was definitely merit in that because it was that moment of releasing and letting things flow and allowing that the readings really started to come off. And I've tried it myself, I've started saying a lot more now. I do care, but I don't care, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Yeah, but that's that's with anything, it's not just with mediumship. Try playing soccer or something or football, potato potato.

Charlie Kelly Medium 36:19

But I mean, like in the difference being in any other area of your life, generally, if you put effort in and try, you will be rewarded for that. Mediumship. So you said

Reading energy through objects and bones

Charlie Kelly Medium 36:30

that again, you will be you will be rewarded in some way, you know. If you try, yes, if we're told that if you work hard, if you do this, if you put in effort, if you try, you know, the the fruits of your labour will pay off at some point, which is but the what the point I'm making about that is when you're doing mediumship, yes, okay. Uh you need to try and you want to develop, but the point I'm making is I used to want to try so hard in readings that the trying would create resistance, it would create friction, it put me in the head, and it wouldn't put me where I need to be, i.e., right brain allowing and and letting it flow. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

So there is something to say about that, right? So it has an an extra level where trying um stops the flow, but and which is very, very important within mediumship. But in many things, trying stops the flow, which is very important. I and I took sports as an example because you can't do sports by just being analytical. You need to connect to your body, you need to connect to your surroundings, and you need to connect to your passion, and then just go for it. And there is hardly anybody to teach you really like if you do this, then this happens. Yeah, of course there is, but I think many things in life are so transferable to mediumship. Like I'm saying it again. Like, I'm having my son, I cannot really teach him how to cycle, I can put him on the bike, I can make sure he doesn't fall. But put him on the bike and hope for the best. Yeah, well, we all do like I mean, accidents happen.

Charlie Kelly Medium 38:05

Maybe give him three wheels or four wheels before you give him just two. No, in the Netherlands, we have um the walking bikes first. Oh, I thought you were gonna say the penny farving, the one with the massive great big wheel at the front. It's it's walking bikes.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

I'm I'm not sure if he needs uh a tricycle at that point. But what I'm saying, like there is many, many skills in life that when you try, you fail. And you've been doing that all your life.

Charlie Kelly Medium 38:31

But now I've I've been trying. Do you know what? I'm a trier, Dennis. I am a try, and I have tried a lot and succeeded a lot. But there are many times where my trying, despite my best endeavours, hasn't always served me in the way that I would have liked to say. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Yeah. And so mediumship is not much different in that kind of way. Even now, you're trying to set up a different kind of direction for your life, right?

Charlie Kelly Medium 38:56

I'm do you know what I wouldn't even say I'm now trying, I'm now allowing life to unfold in the way that it needs to unfold in order for me to do what I need to do. That's the way I'm trying. I notice trying again. That's the way I'm trying to see it. That's my point. See? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Yes, I think sometimes we're making it too too difficult because we think it's so much outside. And I think you already touched upon that in the beginning, what you said. Like, we we tend to think it's so much different than what we already are. That's what makes it uh and then you said, like, when you calm down, you notice it's been there all the time, right?

Charlie Kelly Medium 39:33

Well, I think the moral to the story of this particular conversation, and I think the point we're trying to make is mediumship is experienced very differently by different people. So, firstly, if you're listening to this, don't try and compare yourself to another person, don't try to become another medium, understand that it's a creative process and let that unfold. Kind of embrace nose because nose is you experimenting, it's you fine-tuning these instruments of yours, these faculties, these senses, whatever you might want to call them, Dennis. But that's what we're doing, but it is different. And you know, if you're still hanging on in there to this point in the conversation, then we are in Amsterdam. I know that uh if I yes, sorry, I keep saying that. It's because well I fly into so British, isn't it? I don't I'm now saying that the place we're doing it is the place where I just happen to be landing into very lazy, but yes, I'm very excited to do it, and it'll be interesting because you know I really feel this work is a calling at the end of the day. I don't feel it's something that isn't not a calling because the of what the work

Is traditional mediumship training too restrictive?

Charlie Kelly Medium 40:33

involves and the nature of unfolding it. It's you know, mediumships is extremely healing and it's helped me in so many different ways in my life, and it continues to do so, which is why I feel in service to it, because I feel that it's given me as much as well. I try and give it, but you know, that isn't always possible. But in this modern found era of mindiness, you see, yeah. I'm in one of those moods today, the sillier the better. But you know, if you do want to find out more, then do go to the show notes. We'd love to see you. But mediumship, it is individual, and you know, I think that's the motto of the story today, don't you think, Dennis?

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yeah, and also when you come and see us, we can definitely not cut out any bloopers, so that will be fun too.

Charlie Kelly Medium 41:17

Well, yes, it is live, and I love the fact that you're being so assumptive when you come and see us. Yes, when you come and see us, you know, that will be lovely. I look forward to shaking your hand if that's what you like, or hugs are for free, you know, those stats as well.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

But you know, if you do win also and we should mention we have a third party, right?

Charlie Kelly Medium 41:35

We do, we have a third wheel, much like the bike that your son is on. And he's lovely uh medium called Lucas Auken. You just recently released this um talk. I did, I pushed the button on it today. It uh he's also very talented. He is, he's lovely, uh lovely medium. I've not actually seen him work a huge amount, but you know, I'm really excited to witness that whilst working alongside him for the first time. It will be lovely. Well, it's been a blast, very interesting. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, I liked it, Jason. Thanks for inviting me again.