Soul Sync with Jason Paul

Your Sensitivity Is Not a Weakness: The Making of a Young Medium with Lucas Ilcken

• Jason Paul • Season 9 • Episode 1

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:08:12

What if the part of yourself you once considered a weakness was actually waiting to become your greatest strength?

Before meeting today’s guest, Jason opens up about the enormous changes taking place in his own life: leaving behind the business he built over a decade, stepping into uncertainty and learning to trust the pull towards a more meaningful and spiritually aligned future.

He is then joined by 24-year-old Dutch medium Lucas Ilcken, whose relationship with sensitivity began during childhood. Lucas experienced an awareness of spirit from a young age, but as he grew older, being deeply sensitive became something he tried to escape.

Everything began to change after a remarkable encounter with a stranger on the streets of Amsterdam. That meeting eventually led Lucas to meditation, a deeper understanding of himself and his first visit to the Arthur Findlay College.

During that first week, Lucas began to recognise that his sensitivity was not something he needed to overcome. It was something he needed to understand.

Jason and Lucas explore what it means to live as a sensitive person in a world that often rewards toughness, why the right environment can completely change how we experience ourselves and how the qualities we suppress may contain some of our greatest potential.

Lucas also shares the huge leap of faith he took when he sold the successful family business he had helped run for years. In choosing mediumship, he was not simply changing careers; he was releasing an identity, a family legacy and the security of a life he already knew.

Together, they discuss:

• Why sensitivity can feel like a weakness before we understand it
• Lucas’s childhood experiences of spirit and intuition
• The stranger who changed the direction of his life
• His first extraordinary experiences at the Arthur Findlay College
• Why mediums should remain humble about what they believe
• Trusting spirit while learning to trust yourself
• The confidence knocks that accompany spiritual development
• Choosing a full heart over full pockets
• Whether mediumship can truly prove life after death
• Nervousness, excitement and working on the platform
• Why mastering yourself matters more than mastering mediumship

This is a conversation about mediumship, but it is also about identity, courage and becoming comfortable with the person you were always meant to be.

Perhaps your sensitivity was never the problem.

Perhaps you were simply never shown how to work with it.

Find out more about Lucas Ilcken at lucasilcken.com.

Connect with Jason:

Website: www.jasonpaulmedium.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@jasonpaulsoulsync

Subscribe to the free Soul Sync newsletter at the bottom of any page on the website.

Guest ideas, want to share your story, get in touch with me at hello@jasonpaulmedium.com.

✨ Enjoying Soul Sync?

A quick rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify genuinely makes such a difference. It helps more curious souls find these conversations and keeps the podcast growing.

If an episode has made you think, feel, laugh, question something—or simply helped you feel a little less alone—please take a moment to leave a review.

Thank you for being here. It means more than you know. 🤍

🎧 Listen to the full episode wherever you get your podcasts.

Join the Soul Sync monthly newsletter - become my pen pal at JasonPaulMedium.com ✨
Scroll to the bottom of the homepage to sign up for meditations, mediumship updates, podcast extras, spiritual insights, workshops, behind-the-scenes moments, and all the good soul stuff — delivered straight to your inbox once a month. 

Support the show

A personal update: change, identity and leaving JMC

Charlie Kelly Medium

Hello, welcome back to the SoulSync. It's me, Psychic Medium Jason Paul. Now, for the Eagle-Eyed Amongst You, you're probably wondering where have I been for the last two weeks since leaving you on somewhat of a soap opera cliff edge by telling you that I'd left my business, which I, you know, have basically put my heart and soul into for 10 years now. And it's been about a week and a half now since the deal went through, four weeks since I've been in the business. And when I recorded the last episode, I had all these, you know, big grand plans of what I was going to do immediately. But what's actually hit me soul sink, my darlings, is just how tired I've been over the last couple of weeks. I've had a stomach bug as well, but I won't go into graphic detail there with you. But it's really dawned on me just how much of myself I've given to my business over the years because I feel like I've almost been a bit discombobulated over the last two weeks in terms of what time I'm waking up, my routine. It's really dawned on me that I'm someone like a lot of us are that thrives on routine and just the kind of um motion of what time I would get up, what time I would get to work, what time I would leave work, what time I would go to the gym, so on and so on. But all of that's kind of gone out the window, really. So in the last couple of weeks, I would almost say I've been through a bit of a grieving process, to be honest with you, because the business is my baby, it was my baby. And I feel because of the circumstances and how it all came to be, which I have to say, I didn't see this coming in a million years, this particular situation. So it kind of took me by surprise. And I found myself just wanting to rest a lot. And even though I've said that I'm not going to be rushing into the create another business until at least I've given myself three months off, which I need, because I haven't had more than a week off in 10 years. So I felt a bit discombobulated. I've been doing a lot of mediumship though, which has been lovely actually. And I have to say that my mediumship is unfolding at the rate of not so. I feel that my communications that I'm doing are so much stronger, so much more vivid, because ultimately I'm much more present. And it really made me stop and take account for how much in our lives we might feel that we're present, we might feel that we're in a certain state of being. And actually, until you know you're presented with a big change, you don't always realise even just how you're really feeling about something. So I've been detangling myself from my business, is the first thing I've been doing, but I have been doing lots of readings and I've even been dabbling a bit with the old psychic phone lines again, the premium rate phone lines. And actually, early on in my mediumship journey, I used to do quite a lot of work on the phone lines because I felt it to be a really good place to actually get some practice. And it's quite a hostile reading environment. The first thing I'll say about the phone lines actually is I don't seem to end up doing much mediumship. I would say nine out of ten calls are love calls. Actually, nearly every call I get is a love call, so much so that I'm actually considering rebranding myself on the platform that I do it as Dr. Love. I'm stepping fully into that power. So I do do a lot of love calls, but psychic work is very much what I'm what I well think what my talent is really. I'm a very good psychic. I'm very good at um matters of the heart, you might say. But it is a hostile reading environment because people are paying by the minute. So I remember a lot in the early days it used to really get into my head, actually, because I'd be doing a reading, be in my flow, in my element, and then all of a sudden the phone line would just be drop out because the person's hung up. So it certainly teaches you very quickly. So I've been doing quite a bit of that, which has been quite nice actually. It's been a bit of a novelty to go back and do it because I haven't done the phone lines for quite a while. I stopped doing them after a while because of the fact that they were all love calls and I wanted to be developing my mediumship. So I've been back on the uh phone lines doing a bit of that, wearing my Dr. Love glasses, helping people with matters of the heart. I've also been doing quite a lot of mediumship readings, and I feel like I'm learning so much at the moment. I'd kind of gone through a period with my mediumship about for about three months prior to leaving my business where I felt I was sort of lacking in confidence with my mediumship to some degree or another, even though lots of people would say, no, you know, your mediumship's unfolding at a lovely sort of uh rate of not. But I kind of just felt that I was struggling to get past a certain point in my readings. But now, oh my goodness, I feel like I've been given two or three upgrades to my mediumistic equipment, my mediumistic faculties, you could say. So that's been very interesting. But I've had I just had to really realise and understand that I'm going through a grieving process, and that's gonna take time. And I do keep finding the ego chipping in with unhelpful comments, as it does in all of our lives. You know, it is an ever ongoing piece of work to work with training your mind. Because, you know, I'm I'm still getting some of those thoughts coming in saying, Well, what are you gonna do? What's gonna be your full-time job? Even though I even know what it is, you know, it's really made me aware at this moment about how much divine intervention I feel there's been in me even getting to this place, because the spirit worlds were actually a massive kind of influence in me making the decision to do what I did. And it was because my granddad stood there right by my side with his very serious, stern face. And I have to say that whenever my granddad was a lovely, lovely, very light human being, but when he had his serious face on, you would know to stand up and pay attention. So it was off the back of that really that made me make which made me make the decision in the first place. So I've just been a bit discombobulated really. I think it's you know, a lot of change going on in my life. I don't think I could have more change if you possibly tried. And actually, there is a level of irony, actually, because both my mum and brother at the moment are also in the same situation. My mum, by virtue of the fact that she works in my business, so she's also looking for a job and things like that. But actually, it's just presenting us with some really nice time to be. So I'm gonna be doing a number of solo episodes about mediumship because I want to help you as much as possible in your connection, your unfoldment with the spirit world. So I'm I am going to be releasing some videos as well. I did release one yesterday in regards to how to make a connection with this with the spirit world, and I'll be releasing the part two to that very shortly. So I just thought I'd give you a little update about all things in my world. I'm actually sitting here with a coffee at 7:30 in the morning, feeling proper proud of myself that today I am getting back into a routine. So without further ado, let me introduce you to this episode with medium Lucas Ilkin. Now, today's conversation is called Your Sensitivity Is Not a Weakness, the making of a young medium, and my guest

Your sensitivity is not a weakness

Charlie Kelly Medium

is Medium Lucas Ilkin, who's from the Netherlands. Now, recently I've been thinking a lot about how quickly we decide which parts of ourselves are useful and which parts of ourselves need to be changed. I'm literally in a cord cutting mode at the moment deciding uh what new Jason is gonna look like, what things old Jason wants to leave behind, and it's a process in itself. From an early age, I feel we begin receiving messages about the kind of person we should become. Whether that's be more confident, be more practical, stop taking things so personally, don't be so emotional, fit in, toughen up, get on with it. And slowly, sometimes without even realizing it, we can begin constructing a version of ourselves that feels easier for this world to understand. But what happens to the parts of ourselves that we leave behind? Do they disappear or do they patiently wait beneath the surface until we are finally ready to meet them again? Sensitivity is an interesting example of this because it can be interpreted in completely different ways. In one environment, a sensitive person may be seen as vulnerable or easily overwhelmed. In another, that same person might be recognized as perceptive, intuitive, and deeply aware. The sensitivity itself has not changed. What has changed is the meaning we have attached to it. And perhaps that is true of many of the qualities we have rejected within ourselves. Maybe they were never flaws, maybe they were abilities without guidance, maybe what we called weakness was simply something we have not yet learned to understand. There is also temptation, particularly when we begin exploring spirituality or mediumship, to search for something extraordinary outside of ourselves, and I can relate to that a lot. So this is my conversation with Lucas Ilkin in joy. Thank you very much, Jason. It's a pleasure to be here and to speak with you again. Oh, it's a pleasure to have you here. And well, it's lovely to I know you, I know you because we first met on a medium ship course many years ago,

Meet young medium Lucas Ilcken

Charlie Kelly Medium

and since that point, you know, we've both been on our own journey. So you're a medium, you're from the Netherlands. Indeed. And the first thing that for people watching this on the lovely YouTube is you are a very young medium. Age is relative, isn't it? Age is relative, and you know, there's a lot to be said by the fact I feel that you're a very old soul. You're right.

SPEAKER_02

I I'm 24 years old. I'm 24 years old, so you're right.

Charlie Kelly Medium

And I would say a lot of them are much older. So that stands out to me, Lucas. Thank you, Jason.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I'm 24 years old. Yeah, I'm young in the mediumship community. Unfortunately, I don't know many people of my age.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Why what you know, even firstly on that, you know, what why do you feel that is? Uh do you feel it's because uh, you know, without answering it for you, uh, your journey into it, it wasn't to me almost like it felt like you searched it out, did you? It kind of just came into your life, it feels like.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, definitely, definitely. I've never tried to search for it, and I think that people I think I don't have the answer to the question, but why would someone come into mediumship? And I think that most people are in a state of grief and then try to find an answer to where is my loved one. I don't know that for a certainty, but that's my most likely likable answer to it. And I have not had that. The person that I love the most in there, well, the soul that I love the most is my dog that passed away two years ago. He felt like a brother to me. So, yeah, no, I came into it for very different reasons than that. But I think that's the reason why I'm quite young in this scene.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Because I guess people get pulled into mediumship for a whole range of different reasons. And I guess, is there any such thing as a traditional route? A lot of people, it might be that, like you say, they've lost someone, they started going to perhaps a spiritualist church in order to have proof of life after death, and that's something we'll talk about on this, and it might be by virtue of that, you know, they they start exploring their own mediumship. But for some people, it's they're having things that they can't quite explain. And I know a big part of your story. Tell us about this was the sensitivity that you had. And it and when I read your notes, it didn't feel like it was something that was necessarily, you know, needing to come into your life at that point. But you started having experiences, did you not?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, when I was young, I saw spirit physically. I don't see that anymore. I always want to point it out because my mediumship would be so easy if I would still have that. Unfortunately, I don't. But my mother could help me with it because my mom used to be a medium as well. So she helped me with my sensitivity, not only seeing spirit, but also working with your energy. Like, how does your energy work? Why does my energy get drained when with certain

Seeing spirit and understanding energy as a child

SPEAKER_02

people? And do I feel so energized when I'm with others? And exploring that at a very young age, like six, seven years old, helped me so much in my life. Like learning how to maintain my energy with myself. But then at a certain moment in my life, when I was about uh 17 years old, I met someone who helped me get back onto this pathway because going into high school as a very sensitive boy was not very pleasant, to be fair. So I tried to get rid of it in certain ways, and then I was drawn back to it later on. So yeah, maybe it is meant to be in a way, but I don't know. I just like it, so I do it for those reasons.

Charlie Kelly Medium

I can imagine it's a it is a very beautiful thing, I guess, of your mum to have kind of brought you up in that way to have that kind of awareness of energy and to kind of be aware of your intuition. And I think there's so much that should be done, you know, even at school level, for people to understand about their energy, to understand about you know the power of the intuition, how the mind works, what the soul is, because I think it would solve a hell of a lot of uh problems, especially for young people now in the age of the internet, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Definitely it, I think it would change the worlds because I believe that everyone is sensitive, oh, to different extents, of course. But when I asked to any of my friends who tell me, Oh, I don't believe in mediumship, I don't believe in energy, and I'm like, Well, have you ever walked into a room in which you felt like people just had a fight? Or um have you ever walked into a train and suddenly became so tired? So energy is real, but people don't know how to use it because we don't get trained in it, just like you say. So, yeah, I've been really pleased with having a mum who could help me. And we did little games in my intuition as well. So having that experience from a young age on definitely helped me. Not with my mediumship, that's not the goal, but with exploring myself as a human being, as a soul, um, having this experience, right?

Charlie Kelly Medium

What was your kind of mum's you know objective at the time? Was it to kind of in her mind to sort of equip you with the skills she feels you need in order to you know help you in life? Or what what what angle was she coming at this from? Do you feel?

SPEAKER_02

Definitely not training me as a medium, but because I asked her recently why did you come into mediumship? And uh she said that my sister had experiences herself, so that my mom tried to find out what my sister was experiencing, so that was really interesting to me. So she was definitely doing it only to help me on my journey, but then she started to do to give readings to others as well. She mainly did photo readings, but I know that she helped a lot of friends of mine who lost their grandparents, for instance, and she uh yeah, then read the photos for them.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Yeah, that's how what experiences was your sister having that she was trying to sort of uh contend with or deal with?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know all the experiences she had, I only know that she used to say to me when I was young that she could see people their auras, and that scared the hell out of me, and I never believed her. But I kind of started to believe her, so I know that she had those experiences, I don't know what else.

Charlie Kelly Medium

That's quite interesting, isn't it, to be able to see an aura. So that kind of wouldn't be great. So would you have said that you were kind of very sensitive as a little boy anyway, and that was kind of what your mum was trying to help you navigate.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, definitely, and I like games as well in general, so yeah, I I remember as well. This is what my mom told me recently, I forgot, which she said that we used to have a game in school in which at the end of the day someone would get a little candy or a little present, or could walk a little round if they could guess the number on the back of the screen. So the teacher would write a number on the back of the screen, but I could see through the screen. I do remember that part, I didn't know there was

The intuition games that revealed Lucas’s ability

SPEAKER_02

a present with it, but I could just see it through the screen, so I I always had it right. So the teacher had called my mom and said that I could not participate in the game anymore because Well, I wonder, was it the sweets that got it for you?

Charlie Kelly Medium

I wonder if there was no sweets, would you have been as successful? But there's a lot in that, and even you know, I found myself, even in the years that have gone by, doing a lot of those kind of things of writing numbers on cards, writing letters, getting people to think of a colour and guessing that. And I love that because it's you know, it's it's you're training yourself, aren't you? And even recently I did it with my mum where I got her to pick three colours, and she picked the most kind of crazy colour of purple, you know, that I was never gonna get. And I've got all these colour cards here, and she must have picked kind of plum colour, and I said plum, and she said, Yes, I thought, oh yes, I've got this right, this is very exciting.

SPEAKER_02

So but going back to education as well, I saw a video on Instagram from people from I believe it was in India, where people were blind, where little kids were blindfolders for it, and they had to use their intuition. So a teacher would put something on the screen like a tree, but a really weird tree or a really weird shape, and then the kids had to draw it, and it worked because they were trained in that way.

Charlie Kelly Medium

It's fascinating. It is, and I think because I know that there's a a lady called Nicola Farmer who's on been on the podcast, and she does a lot of work with helping children to actually actually teach school teachers how to deliver this class, whereby it's all about helping children to become aware of energy, and she does a lot of these different experiments, and um, I was talking to her about it, and it's absolutely fascinating. So you were having these experiences, and then you mentioned that you, you know, sh started sort of shutting this down to some extent when you go when you went to school, which is very understandable. You know, my school environment was an all-boys' school out in Kent, rough as anything. That was not the sort of place you wanted to be sensitive. It was probably you wanted to be anything other than sensitive there, if you wanted your feelings not to get hurt.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, definitely. And especially as a sensitive, you don't want to be sensitive there because it makes you hurt even more when people make comments. Because my school wasn't even that bad, but it did hurt me very much, yeah.

Charlie Kelly Medium

So you kind of shut it down, and that was you sort of just turning your back on your sensitivity and trying to not, you know, have those kind of attributes. So you shut it down and then it came back to you. And how did that happen?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I was actually trying to live the opposite life of what I used to live, because my friends and I'm from Amsterdam, you know. So I tried to live those experiences as a 15, 16-year-old, and then after that, I needed a life coach and a psychologist because of those experiences. And I was with a psychologist at the time, but it wasn't really helping. Then at one moment, when I I believe I was 17 or just turned 18, I met a guy on the streets and he walked up to me. And this was really weird. I was renting out a boat, and he walked up to me. I was not renting it out to him, but to one of his friends. He walked up to me and he said, Do you know that coots are one of the most jealous animals in the world? And I was like, as this

Why Lucas tried to shut down his sensitivity

SPEAKER_02

tough little talk from Amsterdam, you know, I was like, No, fuck off. And he said, Well, you know what I mean. And he walked away. And I was still standing there because I definitely understood what he meant. Because I was with a psychologist for several reasons, but one of them was for my jealousy. And then he walked back up to me and he said, Well, I know that you're currently with a psychologist and that you're trying to find another one. I was literally trying to find a new

The stranger in Amsterdam who changed his life

SPEAKER_02

psychologist on that day. He said, I'm a life coach and I can help you. You don't need to pay me, but you can pay whatever you want to pay me. I just need to help you. Then I was with this life coach for a couple years. He I studied meditation with him, understanding myself better, understanding energies a bit more. He's now one of my best friends, and he led me to the art of Indy College. He invited me there.

Charlie Kelly Medium

And so, what a crazy experience. Someone coming up to you in the streets, and I can imagine it actually. It's a colourful place, there's lots going on, and someone comes up and says. That and you know it it hit you in that moment. And was he immediate was that what he was doing then at that time? Do you feel it was mediumship?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think so. He's a really good psychic and medium. He doesn't promote himself in that way, but I do definitely because he couldn't have known this otherwise. He might have known it from my psychologist that I was with one, but not that I was trying to find a new one because I did that in the morning. So there's no way he knew because no no one knew that I wasn't satisfied with my psychologist. And it did scare me indeed, and I would not walk up to someone in that way. He just knew that it was needed, and it was. That experience changed my life. If he had not done that, well, I do believe it would have happened in another way. But if he had not done that, I would not be where I am today. So yeah, it was very scary. And I was like, wow, what is this guy doing? But I needed it, yeah.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Why did it hit you so deeply in that moment?

SPEAKER_02

First of all, that someone can see right through you hit me, but also for someone to be that honest to be like, Do you know that coots are one of the most jealous animals in the world? It made me think immediately, like, ah, yes, I am jealous. That might be the problem, even though I'm not sure whether I was discussing that with a psychologist. It was just like he saw right through me, and that hit me, but it fascinated me as well. It did inspire me in a way because he helped me so much that I was like, wow, could I possibly do this for someone as well?

Charlie Kelly Medium

It sounds to me like it really kind of cracked something open in you, and even the kind of directness of someone in the street coming up to you and you know, saying it in what is a very nice way, you know, not saying you are a jealous man, Lucas, and that is your name, but instead saying it in such a lovely way. Did you know that this animal is one of the most jealous animals? A very nice, delicate, sugar-coated way, Lucas, of perhaps saying it.

SPEAKER_02

Indeed, but now that I know him better, this is exactly how he should have done it. Like he's he's he wants to be such a mysterious man. That's so interesting to me. So, yeah, it made sense. Yeah, it was really mind-blowing and so helpful.

Charlie Kelly Medium

So, how would you because obviously you you as you you know as a young guy, kind of prior to this experience, living your life, having you say obviously turned your back on this kind of world, but what was your life looking like prior to this kind of sort of intervention, one might say?

SPEAKER_02

Um what I'm thinking right now is I still want to go to America. That were my thoughts. But yeah, not very legal.

Charlie Kelly Medium

First of all, for that age, and secondly, yeah, not legal in general, just like a young man trying to find his way in the world, having fun with friends, and you know, like we all do, we're all trying to be able to do that. Trying to find the boundaries a little bit, and yeah. Okay, and then you he came along, had this experience, then you started unfolding your mediumship and going to the college, which you know, I feel like you sort of once you started to find that world, you you know, it sort of really pulled you in, and it was it, you know, tell us about it. It was all stations go, it feels like with your mediumship. Yeah, it does, right?

SPEAKER_02

The college has a pull on you. I think not just for me, also for you, right?

Charlie Kelly Medium

It does. I well, I think the first time I went to the college, I went, you know, not really knowing where I was going, sort of, I was going for proof. I wanted undeniable proof that the spirit world was real, and I wanted to be taught by people that or have this particular topic explored by people that I felt, you know, were the best chance of knowing what they were doing. And when I went there, it was very much well, it made me feel I don't want to say like a homecoming because I feel that's so cliche, but I feel like it was an environment where there was a lot of people with a lot of questions, all very deep questions about life. And I felt that, you know, this is probably the sort of people that I need to be around at this moment because prior to that, you know, I'm around a lot of people in the business world, and you know, I was ever I was probably not feeling at all very spiritual. So that was kind of my impression. My first impressions of it was, you know, where the hell have I come for a week, you know, and what the hell am I doing here? But it drew me in because I left the college with more questions than answers, because you know, once I had the proof that you know life was eternal, then I thought, well, you know, what does this mean?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, 100%. So I came in because of uh because of Frank Giles' name, because of Frank. And he invited me. I didn't really know what it was. He only said, Yeah, college for mediums. And my thoughts were, well, I cannot do this anymore, even though I was meditating and did it before when I was young, but I didn't see spirit physically anymore. So I thought, no, this is not for me because I don't see spirit physically. And he said, Well, just come and let's see. If you don't like it, it will be just a week holiday. And I was like, All right, fine, let's go for it. And I entered the building and the energy that just pulled me in, but also giving the readings to one another, it was so fascinating to me. Like from my very first reading, it was so specific that I didn't believe my recipient wasn't lying to me. I thought she was just lying to me. So because I was describing this man, her grandfather, I still remember her on her father's side. I said his age, how he looked like his glasses, the outfit that he wore was wearing. And she said, Yeah, I can remember everything. I have a picture of him like that. And afterwards, I said, Can you show me the picture? So she showed me the picture and he looked like him, and I was like, Wow, that's so fascinating. So then reading after reading, I was just it was like, Wow, what's happening with me? It's like this superpower, where beforehand my sensitivity was quite the opposite of a superpower. I was only scared of my sensitivity. I moved houses because I didn't want to live in Amsterdam anymore. And now I remember at the end of the week

His life-changing first week at the Arthur Findlay College

SPEAKER_02

we had to tell everyone in the big circle what we learned from the week. And I finally could say that my sensitivity was not a weakness anymore, but that I can use it and that it had become a power of me as strength, and that was so powerful to me how my weakest points became my strength. So after that, I never wanted to leave it anymore. Well, never want I have experience where I wanted to leave my mediumship, obviously, like we all have, but then it just pulls me back. It's just yeah, a feeling hard to describe.

Charlie Kelly Medium

It's it's interesting what you say there about sensitivity and it kind of becoming something that you want to shut down because uh it's not always welcoming people, and uh, you you have these experiences, and you know, a lot of the time we don't want to be sensitive in this world because it, you know, it we see we if you get called sensitive, that's that's an insult a lot of the time because it's especially in this world we live in now, it's about you know I think you're you're not

When sensitivity became a source of strength

Charlie Kelly Medium

it's not a quality that you're meant to necessarily that people say you're meant to embrace. So a lot of people feel ashamed of it before they've even started, they feel like they mustn't be the person they are, they've been suppressing perhaps the way that they feel. And I've heard a lot of stories about people kind of coming into this world because they're seeing things, hearing things like you was, and they didn't know what to make of that. And you know, people are trying to suppress it. And I think a lot of the time, even when I think about, for instance, my ADHD, and I used to before I even knew it was ADHD, I could list out all my bad qualities, not paying attention, rocking on my chair, sometimes trailing off, you know, and I'd learnt to try and kind of balance that out with opposing behaviors that I felt would sort of not demonstrate those qualities. But I often think that a lot of the time the thing that we're trying to suppress in our life is often our talents and it's often our very superpower, and it's about understanding, embracing, appreciating, and knowing how to work with that. And it seems like that's very much the 360 experience that you've been on.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you described it so wonderfully. We should embrace it because it is a quality, your sensitivity, but also your ADHD. Because we have these things to embrace it and to use it as well. Why would it be that strong if it's not there to use? So, yeah, it's so it's so wonderful to me that I have found it, and for you that you found your ADHD, but many people do not know how to live with it, especially in this world, because the world is so tough, and people uh many people don't understand sensitivity and people being sensitive.

Charlie Kelly Medium

It's like a flower, isn't it? If you put a flower in the wrong environment, you don't go along and say that's an awful flower or that plant, it's awful, isn't it? It doesn't stay alive. You don't do that, you the straight away you check the soil, you look at the environment, you make sure if it's in the right lighting. And a lot of the time it's like that in our own lives. If we are not in the right environment, if we're surrounded by the wrong people, if we've got mood hoovers draining the bloody life from us, we're not going to be embracing that quality. We're going to be trying to suppress it because if you're sensitive and you're in the wrong environment, you're going to be feeling that environment tenfold. So, you know, a lot of the time before you can even embrace that, you've got to make sure you're in the right environment, surrounded by the right people. You know, when I look back at my life now five years ago and I look who was surrounding me. Well, actually, maybe let's go back a bit further, maybe 10 years, those people wouldn't have been the people I needed around me to embrace my sensitivity. Because, you know, if anything, when you're sensitive, you've got to have the right environment, the right people around you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, it definitely is a weakness until you recognize it as a quality and then also know how to use it as this. Because it's very easy to say my sensitivity is a quality,

Are you sensitive—or simply in the wrong environment?

SPEAKER_02

right? For people, but then the words are easy to say, but how do you live up to that? How do you know that it can be a quality and how do you use it as a quality and make your life better?

Charlie Kelly Medium

And it feels to me then that when and I I was smiling as you said about your first experience when you went to the college, because yeah, when I first went to the college and I started doing readings, it was very easy for me, the first few first few experiences, but that's because the spirit world were obviously showing me of my potential, you know, a false perception of how easy it was. So when I kept looking at one of the ladies opposite me when I was doing the reading, and I was thinking, she's just being nice to me, isn't she? She's just saying yes, there's no way. And then it was only when she started getting quite emotional at the end that I thought, maybe, just maybe, she's not lying, and I am doing it right. But isn't it funny how even in those early stages you you know the mind runs off thinking things like, you know, well, it's definitely not me, is it? It's obviously her. She's being nice about it. And it's you go on that journey, don't you?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I did tell my sister about this, about the Arthur Findy College, and she said she thought people were making jokes with me. She thought everyone was paid to be there.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Like a room full of actors like you're doing one of those reality TV shows. We're all here, yes.

SPEAKER_02

So I said, Do you know what I paid for the week? Do you know how many people there were? I mean, there were a hundred people. I paid maybe 800 pounds, 700 pounds. What do you think these people are doing with their lives then? She was like, Oh, yeah, but it's just hard to imagine. Is it really real? And like what people try to make up for themselves, it makes less sense than just realizing that there is something more, right? Because I always say to people who are skeptical, well, it makes most sense to me that there is something else, and it makes most sense that that something else is spirit, and that those are your friends and your loved ones, rather than a universal energy. I had someone asking that the other day. They said, Yeah, why do you not know that it's uh the universe telling you all the answers? I was like, I don't, but it makes more sense to me that it's spirit, right? I mean, we don't have the answers, we don't know what source is telling it to us, except for me feeling uh the energy, but maybe the universe is doing that to me, right? We mediums should not try to act as if they know everything because they don't. We're simply trying to make the best out of our lives as well, trying to understand our own mediumship in this moment.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Yeah, and it's difficult to figure that, you know, because everyone when you're developing your mediumship, obviously, we're going through exercises, you're listening to talks, you're going on these courses. But that to me, yes, it's about being in the right environment to unfold and practice and whatever, but that in itself isn't what teaches you mediumship, it's about the experience you have, and it's about how you work with that because it's different for everyone. What did that look like to you then on this journey that you've been to on how your mediumship works for you? And how did you sort of uncover that?

SPEAKER_02

So, my first week was a trance week at the college, and it was really interesting because I had a relationship of seven years, and after I went to the college, uh, it became clear that she wanted to break up with me. But the only true friends that I had at the moment were my guides. So I was finding my love and my I don't really want to say advice because I don't think they give us advice, but I was getting my strength from my guides, seeing how my life can be lived as well, just feeling that there's something else that loves me even more. Yeah, yeah, it was really intense for me that period because we were breaking up, and I finally made some friends who were like really close to me and really supported me. So that helped me. That was the first experience. Then I started with my evidential mediumship a couple months after that, so it didn't take very long because I was sitting in transfer every day a couple times a day because it was just so fascinating for me and so helpful. It was really kind of therapy for me. Then with my mediumship, I love the activeness about it, and to be very honest, my ex-girlfriend

Developing mediumship, confidence and trust

SPEAKER_02

is an artist, a music artist, and I think that I wanted to be a medium because I wanted to be seen as well. We need to be honest, right? And that was my first intention. Yeah, that was my first intention with it. I think that I wanted to be seen, especially on the platform. That's what I liked about it. Because I I wanted to get the attention as well from it. Now, that did change very quickly when Spirit wanted to show me where I needed to be. So, my first demonstration, like you said, for yourself, it was beautiful, it was perfect. I thought, wow, I'm marvelous. I can do this, I can stand in the royal albut. I'm invincible. This is just seamless. Absolutely. Yeah, this is for me. And then the second time you're like, I will be perfect, and you're standing there, and no word comes out of your mouth.

Charlie Kelly Medium

And it's spirit just humbles you. It's like an emotional roller coaster, isn't it? And uh, you think, well, why is it working now? Why is it not working? And then you, you know, we all go through these experiences where you know, I've had many times I thought, why the bloody hell am I doing this? You know, why am I what am I getting from this? For me, it was you know, my my journey into it was to search for proof, and I wouldn't even say I I think there was an element when I started doing thinking, yes, okay, I want to do this, this is easy. But once I started after that first time of doing it, and it wasn't coming to me so easily, it was giving me even more questions because it was starting to make me question my sanity, to be quite honest with you, and if I could even remember exactly what I even saw and felt. So then I was brought more back into it, more because I was trying to understand. Okay, I've I've accepted the fact that I'm going to live forever in the form of a soul. What does this mean to my life now? Why am I here? Why are things not going particularly well at the moment? What you know, I understand, you know, some of these things about soul contracts and whatever, but why am I here where I am? And it just it was it was all these questions that was just going round in my head at the very beginning. And, you know, the experience of mediumship is very individual for that reason. So you went through that and you you started with trance, you developed your mediumship, and you've just got to a stage now where you've just done your CSNU, which is remarkably difficult, I'm led to believe, not having ever done it myself, but I know it's difficult. So big congratulations on doing that. Thank you. What do you feel that you you know, being where you are now, the Lucas, you know, of two years ago, what would you have said to him now, giving him some pointers? Giving him some pointers.

SPEAKER_02

Wow, that's so interesting. I love that question, Jason. Giving him some pointers. I don't I don't think I would. You'd stay mute. I I don't think I would give myself any pointers because we should just all have the experience. I mean, I'm really happy with when I first started to so I've taught free winning, which is a sport, it's like parkour, I don't know if you know it. But I taught that for a couple years, and then I wanted to start teaching mediumship for free, and then I noticed when I started to teach it that my mediumship became way less strong than before. So, but I immediately recognized if I want to teach, I need to know how to overcome this myself as well. So I started to really What did that look like then?

Charlie Kelly Medium

So you you were going to teach and then you just noticed that it wasn't, you know, how would you describe that? It wasn't coming to you or it wasn't flowing, or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Many different things, the evidence being less specific, trying to relay on your clairvoyance or your clairudience, or and then suddenly you start to teach something and it changes immediately.

Charlie Kelly Medium

And that's not what you want in that situation. No, no, no, no. You've just got to this stage, you you've been through the mints and meat machine. I've proved myself, my mediumship's working, I'm doing readings, I'm happy with where I'm going, I'm happy with the direction of travel. Then you know, you do the very bold, very brave, very pushing yourself out of your comfort zone to go and then teach, and then you know, you get your confidence knot, but it's like that, isn't it? You go two steps forward, three steps back at times. It is.

SPEAKER_02

I would say to myself, trust spirit even more. Because I always say I trust them, and I do trust them. I don't trust myself, but that's so easy to say. I mean, if I would trust spirit, you should trust yourself as well. You are a spirit, right? But that's what I would say: trust yourself more, trust spirit more. Everything will be fine. Because it will in the end it will be whatever it needs to be, right? If I'm not supposed to be a teacher, I won't be. If I'm not supposed to be a medium, I won't be. If I won't I'm not supposed to run a fry shop, I will quit my fry shop.

Charlie Kelly Medium

It's very matter-of-fact, isn't it? If I'm meant to be this, I'm meant to be this. If I'm not meant to be this, I'm not meant to be this. It sounds like you that's taken you know a journey to get to that sort of frame of mind. It sounds very matter-of-fact.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, it that is true, but it yeah, it it does make you humble, it does make you yeah, more relaxed, just believe in yourself and in everything else. Yeah, and I I think I honestly do, because I did film my CSNU before, and I mean at that moment I'm not thinking, alright, it will be fine. You know, that that's not your first thought, but after a week you should start to think like, all right, why did it happen? And now I'm so happy that it happened because at first I thought I was brilliant, right now I know that I'm not. I mean, there's so much to learn in this, you will

Why perfectionism can prevent progress

SPEAKER_02

never become I don't know, you will never become perfect, but you will always be exactly where you are or where where you are in your butt.

Charlie Kelly Medium

I think even trying to be a perfectionist or strive for perfection is oh, it's still so much progress. If I think to myself, you know, even Where I might be on this podcast by now, have I, you know, just gone with the flow and just hit the record button and just have spoken. I could have probably had a full encyclopedia of mediumship by now, but it's oh, I want to get this perfect, I want to explain this in the right way, I want to, it just kills progress. And I feel that perfectionism really does stall a lot of people. You talk about you know that kind of belief that you have, but you took a massive leap of faith yourself because you sold a family business, you and that's you know, not just your career, that was a lot. I I I feel it was quite a lot of your identity, it was a legacy, it was security. So, you know, you sold that to dedicate your life, your career, what you do intermediate, you know. Was that the selling of that business uh like a liberation, or was there a bit of grief in walking away from it? Was you, you know, how confident was you at that stage? Because making those big decisions in life, you know, is scary. You know, even I am myself at the moment, I'm in a position where I'm gonna have a big change in my career, and it's you know, I'm trying not to be scared, but it's scary. How do you navigate that? What made you do that?

SPEAKER_02

It is so my dad started the chip shop in 1980. He didn't have any money, he was 24. My grandparents worked there, everyone in my family worked there, and then my dad is 69 right now. He was retired for five years already because I was running the shop for him. I started working there 11 years ago. I was a company director for six years, I think. We had like 40 employees over the years. I've had thousands of employees, millions of customers, and then deciding that you want to stop. Yes, that is not easy. It definitely did. It's funny that you mentioned

Selling the family business to follow spirit

SPEAKER_02

the word identity as well, because after I lost it, it was like I lost a piece of my identity. Because beforehand, you say, uh yeah, I'm Lucas and I own a chip shop, but then now you were like, Yeah, I'm Lucas, and I just sold a chip shop. And it's like that's so different, and I'm a medium, but it it that's so completely now.

Charlie Kelly Medium

You're Lucas. I once had a chip shop, it's uh yeah, no, but that's it.

SPEAKER_02

It it was really difficult because we didn't sell it because we needed to sell it, not at all. We made I was really lucky with my career like this, and I have been really fortunate to have these experiences and to now have a house in Amsterdam and to live a life like this because I had the chip shop. But when I told my dad that I wanted to sell it, he said you're crazy because you have money now and you don't know what it is to live without.

Charlie Kelly Medium

And how did you approach he gave you the sentiment of crazy? How did you respond to that?

SPEAKER_02

I am crazy, that makes sense, first of all. That makes for that makes sense, but the whole process of selling took like 10 months or something, so we did have some time to think about that. So I really had to think about it, that's true, but then I figured that I'd rather have a full heart than pick full pockets.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Well, I think a lot you you even say that, and as soon as you were saying that, it feels to me that you picked soul over safety.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it is, it is, and it's it's it feels like that as well. It feels like even though now I'm like, all right, so what will happen next? How will I make some money with my mediumship? Because we need to make a living from it as well, if we want to do this um as a career, and as much time I invest in it, you need to start making a living from it. But I am really pleased I did it, even though I missed the customers and I miss the hard work because I like working from 10 in the morning till three in the night. That was just fun for me and working so hard. I miss the employees, but still this is the pathway that I should take. That's just how it has felt since I entered it.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Well, uh, do you know what? And I think that amazing that you did that because I think so often in life, you know, so many people choose to operate within their comfort zones and or choose safety. And it's not surprising in this world that we live in now. Safety, probably at the moment, to a lot of people, looks goddamn appealing, which says a lot, unfortunately, about the world that we live in because you know, safety is you know something that so many people see. But a lot of the time, safety isn't necessarily what we should be doing, what our soul's calling us to do. And then, you know, we start feeling out of alignment, unhappy, you know, knowing that we're not where we should be. And

Choosing a full heart over full pockets

Charlie Kelly Medium

even, you know, I've come to a juncture in my life recently where I've been in my business for 10 years, long old time starting something up. I feel like I've been probably on one of the worldest roller coasters ever. It's been up, down, sideways, back to front. And I'm getting to a place now where it's not serving me particularly well anymore. And I know that I'm gonna have to come up to a big change, which feels bloody scary, and it does. And I know that what I'm meant to be doing is meant to be doing things that are more in this world than the world I'm currently operating in professionally, but it can feel scary. And I would always say to people that you know, all growth happens through difficulty at times, it can happen through being uncomfortable, and I think we we, you know, being outside of our comfort zone. I think I've been outside of my comfort zone, Lucas, for so many years. I think I've just become uncomfortable with comfortable with being uncomfortable. So, you know, you've just got your CSN CSNU. I do want to say well done on that again, and you put something on your mediumship form that you gave me the guest form before we got off that was quite interesting. And you stated that you know you're not here necessarily to prove life after death. A lot of people who you know are listening to this, who are interested in mediumship, are going to be thinking, well, Lucas, if that's not what you're here to do as a medium, then what are you here to do?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, of course, of course they are, of course they are.

SPEAKER_02

But that well, I don't see the point of proving life after death, because I cannot, and it makes me very nervous.

Charlie Kelly Medium

That was my intention. Well, surely you can, surely by bringing through evidence of someone's love when you are proving that. Are you not?

SPEAKER_02

No, I don't think so. Because I can give you evidence, but then you can still think that I found it on Facebook. You could you will still have a doubt if you truly don't believe it, you will still have a doubt. You I cannot convince someone else completely. I can try to awaken that exploration in themselves, but I cannot convince them. And you will have readings in which you will not be a hundred percent accurate. And like you know, as mediums, we are not always giving the first name, surname, and the date of birth, which is what many would expect, what many skeptics would expect.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Oh, I'd love it if I was getting the first save certain of a date of birth. I think I'd be you know, if only of course.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know many mediums who do that, but then that is what people would expect. And yes, I think then you can prove life after death. But right now we just give them the experience of their loved ones,

Is a medium really here to prove life after death?

SPEAKER_02

try to not bring them alive, but bring their essence alive, and I think that's really valuable. But the thing that awakened me and that I like about mediumship right now is that if there is something after this life, there's something right now to explore, and there's a reason why we are here, and that's really fascinating to me because if I'm a soul in a human body, it cannot be coincidence that I'm here. So I'm trying to find my reason why I'm here and live up to that, and I think I found that reason because I feel that my my soul feels awakened right now when I do my mediumship, and I think we should all thrive towards a life in which we feel awakened, in which our soul feels like okay, this is what we are meant to do. I feel true happiness and joy right now. Do you see what I'm saying? And I try to awaken in others.

Charlie Kelly Medium

I think that's the exploration. Well, it feels to me that as you're saying that, it feels like there's a sense of alignment, and you there's this. I think when you know you're doing what you're meant to be doing, you feel in alignment. You feel, and I know in myself, those times when I've really manifested, those times when I've really created, and there's been times where I've created crazy amounts of things because there was this total alignment between action, between what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling, and I've known that's where I've meant to be. But there's have been other times in my life when I've been goddamn absolutely miserable. For instance, when I was a police officer, I was in no alignment then, you know. I because I was going home miserable, and it feels to me that you know, even when you say that, it feels to me that there's this knowing that you have.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. And when I stand on the platform, I'm just feeling that

Discovering purpose, alignment and spiritual fulfilment

SPEAKER_02

awakening of my soul. I love it for myself, but I also love that I can help others try and find the light within themselves because some are grieving and need to find what is behind this. Is there something else? Why am I here? I just think there are many questions that should or might arise into people. We'll go to a demonstration or a one-to-one reading. I mainly talk about demonstrations because that's the thing that I like more. I don't like the intimate things I do one-to-ones as well. And that's I love it as well, but it's I like to not have it very intimate, probably because of my experiences in life. But yeah, it's just showing to people that there's something else than this materialistic life and not trying to convince them because I I I will not succeed if I try to convince everyone. I know that I will not succeed.

Charlie Kelly Medium

You're still trying to show them that though, I guess. You're still trying to demonstrate that that is, but you're not putting the emphasis on the, you know, I'm trying to prove anything. You're yeah, you know, but it it feels to me that you must be touching on that anyway, naturally, and by virtue of what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it would be a great achievement, and yes, it might happen naturally, but I'm not trying to achieve it because I will be very sad by myself because that won't work. It if I give a demonstration to a hundred people, not everyone will be convinced. I 'cause I have a really good friend of mine who happens to be a medium, but he often gives first names and surnames, and now I know that it's a genuine medium. But then I was talking with uh other people that I met, and I mentioned his name, and they were like, Yeah, but do you know he's a fake? And I was like, No, he's not, it's a friend of mine. And they were like, Well, he's fake because he always mentions first name, surnames, and this and this, and this. I was like, You're a medium yourself, right? You've been doing this for over 10 years, yeah. And I've just seen him in many churches, and I know he's fake. And I was like, Okay, so this guy's a medium since he's six years old, he's about 50 years old right now. He's worked for 44 years, he gives the most specific evidence that I've ever heard and that I might even dream about if the goal is to convince other people, and then you still have many people who say that they are fake.

Charlie Kelly Medium

I mean, yeah, well, there is something in that, even when you're saying that, you know, if I go into a reading and I'm trying to prove something, I'm making the focus of that reading about the sitter, and what I'm trying to do when I'm doing a reading is not be with the sitter at all. You know, I've I've had you do when you do mediumship, I've had some readings in recent times where because I've got I've gone recently through a little bit of a kind of confidence drop in my mediumship. I do I do this, I go up, I go down, I go up, I go down. A bit like a Bitcoin Lucas. And recently I've gone through a period of not doing as much, and then I get my phone go off through three people that I've read for in the past, all of which I thought maybe I didn't do my best reading, want to book a rereading. And then I've learned, Jason, you're never gonna know, you know, if that reading really touched someone, especially when I start off the reading, saying to someone, look, for the start of the reading, what I'd like you to really say is yes, no, don't know. And then I get myself into a position where I get to the end of the reading where I think, well, the sitter hasn't said too much, so I don't know how the reading's bloody gone. What I need is a feedback sheet at the end. I don't know. But you laugh about this, but it is a journey, isn't it? It is a journey. Yeah, one thing that really jumped out to me or when I was reading through some of the notes you kindly gave me before we got recording was it you said something, and I did think all this is a spicy thing, a little bit more controversial. So I wanted to ask you about this point because you said that you don't understand why mediums sometimes get nervous before platform work. Now I've got my own opinions on that. Isn't nerves natural, Lucas?

SPEAKER_02

Surely thank you, because I was just wanting to go here, because the point is if you're trying to control other people their emotion emotions in life in general, that won't work. So if you try to convince them, you can't, you can only control your own. So, yes, of course, I do get a little bit nervous if when I get it walk up in front of a platform and give a demonstration to 100 people, or when I have a final assessment board for my CU, for instance. But yes, it is a natural thing, but we should definitely enjoy it, not just afterwards. I mean, it's something fun to do, right? And if you're not enjoying it, then why are you doing it? I think that's what I put in the notes because I don't see it.

Charlie Kelly Medium

I don't see why you would have a job in which you feel nervous all day and then get a well, it's gonna be a very hard job, you know, because I know myself, I get nervous. I think I do get nervous, but I understand that I think that energy is needed. It's kind of almost like for me, it it shows that I'm I don't even think it's necessarily nervous energy. I think it's perhaps an energy of the building of excitement of the spirit world. But because it feels to me like those butterflies in the tummy, it's like this is nerves. Now, the one of the crazy things is I get probably more nervous if we're going to do a scale of nervousness between one and ten. I would say I get more nervous to a one-to-one reading than I do a platform reading for the simple fact that when it's one-to-one, it's it's just you and the sitter. The sitter has come with a level of expectation, and I'm wanting to desperately do a good job for them. But when it's in that platform

Should mediums feel nervous before platform work?

Charlie Kelly Medium

environment, I feel that I don't get as nervous by the collective energy because I'm not focused on any one person. I'm almost sort of taking the uh the audience as one collective energy and trying to work and manipulate that. So, my objective when I'm doing platform, I guess, is I want to raise the energy in the room, you know, by trying not to do something silly at the beginning, but that's normally sometimes happens. But you're trying to work with that. So, you know, I but nervousness is one of those things that I think it it there's a you there's so much there when you're trying to do a reading, you're trying to think about oh, I hope it's gonna come through correctly, are the spirit well gonna be there? There's lots there, and I think that once you get over the nerves and know how to work with them and whatever, it really you sort of propel forwards.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. But if I would ask you one question, would you like to be nervous or not? I if that if that would be the all the options, would you?

Charlie Kelly Medium

Well, I would say no, I would rather not be nervous, but I also feel there's something about that not too like a little bit of butterflies, I don't feel is a bad thing because I feel it shows you care.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I definitely understand that, but I don't think it are nerves either. The thing that I'm feeling are not nerves, it's excitement. The excitement that's building. But changing those words in your head already will change so much because I I said it because I know mediums were nervous all day, and then they give this demonstration and then they feel a little buzz afterwards, and yes, that's really nice, of course. That was, but then why are you nervous all day when this is your profession? I mean, yes, you should feel excitement, but I think it's the meditation uh that comes in there because I've just really learned to control my emotions, so I do think that that's the reason why I'm not getting really nervous. I usually also meditate before my demonstrations, where many mediums say you should sit in the power, and I do recognize the difference, but I think that ourself is very important in this life, that is more important than being a medium, is what I feel like. I'm here to live a happy life, not live a life of a medium. Well, in the end it's combined with me, but then the goal of life is to live a happy life, not to live a medium mystic life.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Well, if we go back to your form, I can go keep going back to your form now, like Spanish Inquisition. But you you also put and it jumped out at me that you know, don't you put here stop obsessing over your mediumship and learn to master yourself. And there's a lot to be said for that. There is a lot to be said because really this is about learning about you to become the clearest channel for the spirit world, you've got to understand yourself, your own energy, and how to control it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we become so obsessed with mediumship, but I don't think mediumship is the point. Also, not of a medium. What is the point, Lucas? What is the point? To explain it, yeah, how I would explain it to a little kid is to live a happy life. And why do we lose that joy when we get older? So it might be that that's where my age comes in, but I just want to keep feeling the joy and the energy. Because why wouldn't I? I mean, that's the point of life, right? To be happy, to try and be happy, and then everything that happens to us, yes, that makes us less happy. Obviously, I've experienced my things as well. But then how do you manage that? Because it is life. We are living these human experiences, and everything happens for a reason. So, why do we worry so much about everything? Why do we not just meditate uh every day? Why do we not learn to control our brain? I take a cold shower every morning, for instance, which is terrible, but it makes me so much more focused, and it feels like I already won something.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Oh, I'm such a baby with cold water, even when I was away. Even when I was away last week on holiday, and my father said, I'll come in the sea, and I put my toe in it and I thought, oh, I'm just gonna have to run in, but I'm not, I need to start doing that. A cold shower in the morning. I think there's a lot to be said for that. So, you at the moment, you're I know you're busy, you've been out there, you've been at churches, and you're doing workshops. Tell us a bit about that. What are you up to? What's the summer looking for like

Stop obsessing over mediumship and master yourself

Charlie Kelly Medium

for you, Mr. Lucas? The summer looking for me, Mr. Lucas.

SPEAKER_02

I love that mystery chips and pole. So, first of all, I'm going to move houses, so I'm really excited about that in this summer. That is exciting. Yeah, because I can finally go back to Amsterdam, where before I tried to uh run away from it, I now can simply be in it. So I'm really happy with that, and it feels like a big achievement in mastering my energy or my sensitivity in a sense. And yes, I'm going to give more workshops as well. I've given a lot of free workshops because I just wanted to test my material in a sense, test it on myself. Well, Spirit made me test it on myself because they made sure that I needed to train more. Uh, so that was helpful. Thank you, Spirit, for making me feel very uncomfortable for many months. So, yes, I will give workshops and yeah, let's see what else happens. I just go with whatever feels best for me.

Charlie Kelly Medium

Because this is an exciting new chapter, isn't it? Moving houses, taking a leap into uh doing this full-time, you know. I wish you all the very best with that, and uh, we all do here. It sounds like there's you know very bright times ahead. And I always think to myself, you know, doing this at 24, I think to myself, what was I doing at 24? I think I've probably just joined the police. Um, I couldn't have been further from us further from spirituality at that point, I tell you. But uh I wish you all the best of it, and thank you so much for coming onto the Soul Sync.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much, Jason. It was a pleasure to speak with you again and to share my story.

Charlie Kelly Medium

And I tell you what, I couldn't have felt less spiritual in the police. That was a bloody nightmare of a job, the most negative environment that I've ever been in, and it was actually

Returning to Amsterdam and Lucas’s next chapter

Charlie Kelly Medium

making me lose all faith in humanity. What really stayed with me from that conversation is the idea that sensitivity does not automatically become a gift because we recognise it. It becomes a gift when we learn how to understand it, ground it, and ultimately take responsibility for it. Perhaps the aim is not to feel less, but to become more discerning about what we feel, what belongs to us and what we choose to do with it. And maybe that is true of all spiritual development. It is not only about becoming more open, it's about becoming more present, more honest, and more folly yourself. Thank you to Lucas for such a thoughtful conversation, and thank you as always for listening.